Curse

Razz L Dazzle · Jan 29, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kron Kronitius

My point here is that for every skill and every build, there is an effective counter. All it takes is a little time, thought and effort to look at the skill or build and see what works against it. IMO, if more people thought about what works well, and what works well against it, the game would be fine instead of turning into a battle of nerfs, which is where it's headed.

The problem with your suggestions and most people that don't understand why many feel this skill is overpowered is that we aren't thinking of how to combat the problem in a 1v1 situation or a situation where we know we will play a team running several searing flames ele like [izzy]. If i know we are playing [izzy] are they are going to be running SF eles then i know to bring many of the counters that you have suggested. But in GvG, HA and pvp we don't know what the enemy will bring. If i show up in one of your ridiculous frigid armor builds and play a Euro spike, Euro split, Blood spike or something else, guess what? My build is useless. Good builds try to have many skills that fit all situations and help you beat the current meta-game. When you find a build that uses frigid armor and shadow form successful in high level PvP, let me know. Till then, stop trolling the forums trying to tell people how to play when you clearly know so little about pvp.

Wasteland Squidget · Jan 29, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kron Kronitius

My point here is that for every skill and every build, there is an effective counter. All it takes is a little time, thought and effort to look at the skill or build and see what works against it. IMO, if more people thought about what works well, and what works well against it, the game would be fine instead of turning into a battle of nerfs, which is where it's headed.

The game you're talking about (playing rock-paper-scissors with the builds) actually has very little to do with PvP in Guild Wars, and this post makes me wonder if you've ever played any PvP besides Random Arenas.

Kron Kronitius · Jan 29, 2007, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Just a question-Do you think everyone but you is retarded?

Because that's the implicit assumption behind your "learn2counter" line.

No, I don't. I think everyone runs around screaming "Nerf XX" far, far too much. As I stated in an earlier post. The top guilds simply adjusted their builds, or created new builds, to counter the new flavor of the month, and moved on. The took the time to think about it, put a little time and effort into their game, and still are top rated guilds to this day. If they can do it without a fuss, then why is everyone else so quick to take a divergant path? Most hardcore PvP players want to have a top ranked guild. The problem is they don't want to take the time to think of ways to counter what is being heavily used, and would instead scream for a nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

The game you're talking about (playing rock-paper-scissors with the builds) actually has very little to do with PvP in Guild Wars, and this post makes me wonder if you've ever played any PvP besides Random Arenas.

If you honestly think that there is not a counter to each and every skill and build out there, I feel sorry for you. This just serves my point.

If more people took the line that the top guilds did and still do, we wouldn't have any skills getting nerf'd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

The problem with your suggestions and most people that don't understand why many feel this skill is overpowered is that we aren't thinking of how to combat the problem in a 1v1 situation or a situation where we know we will play a team running several searing flames ele like [izzy]. If i know we are playing [izzy] are they are going to be running SF eles then i know to bring many of the counters that you have suggested. But in GvG, HA and pvp we don't know what the enemy will bring. If i show up in one of your ridiculous frigid armor builds and play a Euro spike, Euro split, Blood spike or something else, guess what? My build is useless. Good builds try to have many skills that fit all situations and help you beat the current meta-game. When you find a build that uses frigid armor and shadow form successful in high level PvP, let me know. Till then, stop trolling the forums trying to tell people how to play when you clearly know so little about pvp.

If that's what you think I'm doing, then you're missing my point. I posted my OPINION, nothing more. I'm sorry if it isn't the opinion of the majority of people here, that it's something new and unusual. Nowhere did I state that I was absolutely correct in each and every way. This is just my thoughts and feelings on the matter, period. If people can't take an opinion outside of the norm, then that's their problem. If you think I have no clue what I'm talking about, that's your opinion and you're entitled to have it, just as I am entitled to have mine.

As for the builds. Nowhere did I post any build, or anything that even claimed it was a build. I merely said that there is a counter for each and ever build/skill out there, and encouraged people to put some time, thought, and effort into making or modifying their build to counter what's popular.

dgb · Jan 29, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

I'm not feeling particularly generous today so I'm going to cut straight to the point.

Your opinion is flawed and shows that you've only got an RA level of understanding of the game.

Rey Lentless · Jan 29, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

There are hundreds of skills, so everything has a counter. Nobody's arguing that. Having a counter however does not equate balance. You looking at a list of skills that can counter something means 2 things.. jack and shit. And jack thinks SF could use a nerf too.

And balance is a real thing. Some skills could use buffing and some could use nerfing and as new skills are added some older skills that were balanced become less so with synergy. That's just how this works, and balancing will have to be constantly done to maintain it. It's not crying nerf. It's not lack of skill in countering. It's an effort to simply make the game better.

The closer to balanced skills we have, the more options everyone has. With more options, for a lot of us, it means more 'fun'. Unless you're fundamentally against fun.. be quiet already.

Kron Kronitius · Jan 29, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Well since I'm in the minority here, and the majority rules, I guess that my opinion doesn't count for a dam thing. Since nobody is willing to listen to reason, or even think for themselves, save for a few, what's the point in trying to show you people reason.

The problem with this is my thoughts are new and different and don't conform to the norm that has been established here. Because nobody here has presented an original idea of their own, that makes me an easy target. If you can't take the time to actually extert mental effort to any extent, an spout the same flavor of bullshit at me, then why should I lend my originality to the scene? What's the point? Gee, the exact same point I've been trying to make in my posts.

Have an original thought of your own.

Symbol · Jan 29, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

You're not original. You're the latest in a long line of luminaries who thinks that "learn2counter, nubs" is an argument.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

neoflame · Jan 29, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Kron: Let's make every skill in the game have the additional effect of instantly killing the target if the target is you. After all, you can run Spell Breaker, Ignorance, and then just interrupt every non-Spell/Signet skill targeting you, right?

RotteN · Jan 29, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

actually Kron, simply by claiming people are ignorant and fail to grasp your genius, you do not prove your point. Surely, there are counters to every skill out there, but you fail to grasp that you can only bring 64 skills into GvG, and you expect people to counter a 1300ish skillbase (don't know the exact number, so sue me if i'm off) with 64 skills purely by your rock-paper-scissor mechanic ? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that simply won't ever work.

Your thoughts aren't new and different, they're the most dead obvious you could ever encounter, simply thinking PvP is all about "build wars", where you beat stuff by bringing an effective counter. Well, it isn't, GvG's aren't won by builds, they're won by tactics and how you use those 64 skills you bring. Balance isn't about providing a counter, it's about scaling every skill so it can be used to your advantage without becoming the most obvious and only possible good choice there is.

or, to use it in some silly example : scaling everything so your offense skills are "swords" and your defense skills "platemail", or so that your offense skills are "machine guns" and your defense skills are "kevlar". Putting a few "machine gun"-levelled skills in a sword/platemail balanced game is imbalance, same goes for putting a few "swords" in a machine gun/kevlar balanced game, cause those skills would never see any usage.

Thomas.knbk · Jan 29, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kron Kronitius

If you honestly think that there is not a counter to each and every skill and build out there, I feel sorry for you. This just serves my point.

If more people took the line that the top guilds did and still do, we wouldn't have any skills getting nerf'd.

The guy you just tried to diss actually is in a top guild. NUKE isn't that high up at the moment, but they've been around 30-40 for a long time in various previous seasons. There goes your point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

Kron: Let's make every skill in the game have the additional effect of instantly killing the target if the target is you. After all, you can run Spell Breaker, Ignorance, and then just interrupt every non-Spell/Signet skill targeting you, right?

No, you could just interrupt the spellbreaker/ignorance
But then again, you could just use Guilt to make sure those interrupts fail.
Then again, you could run Hex Breaker to make sure the Guilt doesn't hit.
Then again, you could run Wild Blow to get rid of Hex Breaker.
Then again, you could use Blinding Surge to make sure the WB doesn't hit.
Then again, you could use Mend Condition to remove the blind.
They try to shame you, but you interrupt it because their Guilt is already on someone else.

Condition removal>us all.
Q.E.D.

Kron, this was sarcasm.

P.S. You haven't answered my question. Do you think Ether Renewal, Energizing Finale, Nature's Renewal, Chain Lightning, Fertile+Symbosis and Gale weren't overpowered because you can bring counters to them?

Kron Kronitius · Jan 29, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

As the site went down shortly after I made my post, let me post what I was originally going to say.

Well since I'm in the minority here, and the majority rules, I guess that my opinion doesn't count for a dam thing. Since nobody is willing to listen to reason, or even think for themselves, save for a few, what's the point in trying to show you people reason.

The problem with this is my thoughts are new and different and don't conform to the norm that has been established here. Because nobody here has presented an original idea of their own, that makes me an easy target. If you can't take the time to actually extert mental effort to any extent, an spout the same flavor of bullshit at me and fail to make a valid point, then why should I lend my originality to the scene? What's the point? Gee, the exact same point I've been trying to make in my posts.

Have an original thought of your own.

If you can't think for yourself, where does that leave you? What does that have to say for yourself?

All I'm getting in response is that I'm full of shit. If you all know so much more than I do, then tell me a way to counter this skill, without using any of the skills that were mentioned in previous posts, unless you're the original poster. If you can't do this, then you have shown you're just a conformist without an original thought of your own.

P.S. No, I don't think that build is overpowered at all.

Thomas.knbk · Jan 29, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kron Kronitius

P.S. No, I don't think that build is overpowered at all.

It's not one build with all those skills in it, those skills are examples of the most overpowered skills in guild wars. In their current form they're fine (even underpowered in most cases), but they used to be devestating. Yet another example that you either don't have a clue about balance or haven't been active in pvp for long.

Plus what symbol said. You're not original. You're the latest one to say 'learn2counter noobs'.

Oh, and could a mod close this thread? I made it to see what everyone thinks about SF, but I think it's done its job.

Lord Mendes · Jan 29, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kron Kronitius

Spell Breaker, Restore Conditions, Frigid Armor, Purge Signet, Mend Ailment, Mend Condition, Extinguish, Mending Touch, Purge Conditions, Purge Signet, Assassin's Remedy, Mend Body and Soul, Resilient Was Xiko, Spirit's Gift, Wielder's Remedy, Lyric of Purification, Song of Purification, Cautery Signet, Avatar of Melandru, Vow of Silence, Disrupting Chop, Dwarven Battle Stance, Distracting Blow, Savage Shot, Incendiary Arrows, Leech Signet, Disrupting Stab, Disrupting Lunge, Distracting Shot, Shivers of Dread, Spinal Shivers, Cry of Frustration, Web of Disruption, Warmonger's Weapon, Broad Head Arrow, Choking Gas, Power Block, Power Leak, Power Spike, Power Return, Power Drain, Power Leech, Spell Shield, Obsidian Flesh, or Shadow Form.

For the love of god don't post if you have no ingame experience with these skills. Please...
SB = non-viable elite monk enchantment that can be maintained for 1/3 of the time on one person. fail...
RC = getting your monks to spam RC on each party member every 3-4 seconds will guarantee you run out of energy and take a kill. fail...
Frigid armor = enchantment that requires a specific secondary and attributes that has a downtime and can only counter burning. fail...
Purge Signet = Have u read the recharge time? fail...
Mend Ailment and condition = read RC.
Extinguish = read purge signet.
Mending touch = if all you are doing is spamming mending touch on yourself, then you are not doing much else. Shutting you down and forcing you to use your energy pool defensively. Also the burning will be re-applied 3 seconds later.
Need I go on???

Listing interupts as counters is stupid.
Let's say I created a skill called Meteor blast storm shower. 1 second cast, 2 second recharge. Does 99999 AoE damage.
Now, prot spirit and interupts will stop this skill, but does this mean that it is not overpowered.

Look Kron, when you get your wins in RA and TA, try playing some HA or GvG, and you could also hit B every once a while and obs some games. Your understanding of game mechanics is so bad that I am starting to think that you have never EVER played PvP, and are one of those "I don't own the game but understand it well (Ian Bond)" people.
A spammable high DPS AoE burn that can be kept up forever with support from your primary class as insane as searing flames needs to be changed to make it less viable to the mindless spammers and to enhance game balance.

Divineshadows · Jan 29, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Oh, and could a mod close this thread? I made it to see what everyone thinks about SF, but I think it's done its job.

As you wish.